Suck it up people!!
#21
(02-22-2017, 09:00 PM)Mohenjo Daro Wrote: You forgot that if you turn around and a guy is standing in your floor or wall, PrntScr is a nice button, Win _ PrintScr on win8 and 10 will save the image to your pictures folder.

Otherwise nice summary.

thanks, i've been feeling the daggers lately...
#22
Can we all calm down please.

I stand by all my admins. They're sacrificing their own free time to make this game a better place. Please respect that.

I never spoke to anyone about a FOV glitch and I'm amazed this hasn't been reported on the forums before. Please explain how that works, so it can be fixed.

Also, reporting something to me personally, via IM for example, is not the proper way to report a bug. I briefly go through these messages, because I get too many of them. Also, it's not a very transparent way of dealing with bugs. So please always report them on the forums.
#23
i said, after so many MUTES that persons chat log gets reviewed, thats for chat log only, as far as the cheating, if the guy isnt halfway thru the floor, then it does no good, he could have jumped inside your door b4 u closed it, and what about people returning to their bases to find empty crates, i hope this new update comes quick and with a DB wipe
#24
(02-22-2017, 10:03 PM)Wrecktem_Recker Wrote: i said, after so many MUTES that persons chat log gets reviewed, thats for chat log only, as far as the cheating, if the guy isnt halfway thru the floor, then it does no good, he could have jumped inside your door b4 u closed it, and what about people returning to their bases to find empty crates, i hope this new update comes quick and with a DB wipe

Correct...My bad, after looking at the OP, it was an in-depth look at the muted player's chat log..

I apologize Wrecker...
#25
(02-22-2017, 08:54 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 07:55 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote: Maybe the admins should be more proactive in finding people who abuse / exploit glitches, and hack. Instead of leaving it up to the players. "BRING ME PROOF" is being a lazy admin imo. At the very least when multiple players are complaining about someone, the admins should put in a full effort into investigating that person. This is the only game I have played where it is left up to the players to find rule breakers. This isn't the job of the players. We shouldn't have to do the admins work for them. We should be focused on playing the game, and providing feedback, and reporting the bugs / glitches. Which most of us do.  NOT focusing our time we sprend online doing what the admins should be doing.

So, what would your ideal number of complaints be?  We've been down this road before with a conversation with Wrecker, about "muting" players and if so many people mute a player there is obviously something wrong with them and they should be kicked automatically.  It was decided that, while that sound cool, it also could be used against everyone.  The BR's have huge numbers and they could easily send in plenty of reports of harassment, hacking etc...about any of us.  And according to the above logic, we'd need to ban you.

What we are trying to do here is have a rule base equally enforced across the board.  If you guys want us to ban people simply because you and your clan said so, then we would also need to ban people when the BR clans asked us to.  Do you see the problem.  You want special rules that only apply to the BRs.

An please remember that admins are people too, we have lives, jobs, and other commitments that don't allow us to be online all the time.  and even when we are online, we can't be everywhere.  All i get to see is whats in front of me, and what's in that chat window.  Chat window doesn't prove hacking unless it's a bonafide confession.  Chat will prove harrassment, toxicness, racist, etc..but not hacking..  I can't see a chat window of someone saying so and so built stairs on my foundation..and ban them for it. 

I guess i just don't see why it's so hard to provide proof.  If you can't be bothered to run recording software or a screenshot, how do you expect admins to be able to be online 24/7 and be at everyones base watching it for wrongdoing?

What am i missing?

First off I have no issue with BRs,  I have an issue with a handful of people who been ruining the game lately for many people. 

How many complaints? Maybe use some judgement, and look around. It is not hard to see a lot of people are getting frustrated. If a lot of people are getting frustrated maybe there is actually an issue that needs to be addressed. If people start making false accusations that is something I hope any Admin would able to figure out with time, and scrutiny (with room for human error). If not maybe they shouldn't be an admin.

The "Bring me proof" approach alone is obviously not working. Most people are not going to break the rules, glitch someones base etc. until their target is logged off. That is why I said admins need to be more proactive in catching rule breakers, instead of throwing their hands up in the air "You didn't get proof, too bad so sad!". Instead of waiting for reports to come in. Go find them. Go catch the bad guys! From my experience that is what a GM typically does. They actually look for people breaking the rules. When a report does come, investigate it. Use common sense, and critical thinking to determine at which level you need to address the complaint. Admins not doing anything at all (so it seems) is getting equally frustrating.

I honestly have no clue what type of features an admin has at their disposal. A common one I have seen in other games is letting them go invisible. If this doesn't already exist in this game, maybe that is a solution to help admins do their job better. So they can monitor suspicious people.

If we are going to only use the "bring me proof" method, sit back, and wait on the off chance we get a recording, post them and wait for Chaozz to drop the hammer. My question is: Why even bother having in-game admins?
#26
Brazilians DO read the forums. Mostly the bugs part. I have reported 2 big bugs via PM and now i see why you havent replied, i understand that. But i feel hesitant to post those bugs where they can see them and f*&# us in the next update. Is there any onther place i can PM you?
#27
You can PM me or a different admin and we can post it in the admins area for huge/big bugs.
#28
(02-22-2017, 10:50 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 08:54 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 07:55 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote: Maybe the admins should be more proactive in finding people who abuse / exploit glitches, and hack. Instead of leaving it up to the players. "BRING ME PROOF" is being a lazy admin imo. At the very least when multiple players are complaining about someone, the admins should put in a full effort into investigating that person. This is the only game I have played where it is left up to the players to find rule breakers. This isn't the job of the players. We shouldn't have to do the admins work for them. We should be focused on playing the game, and providing feedback, and reporting the bugs / glitches. Which most of us do.  NOT focusing our time we sprend online doing what the admins should be doing.

So, what would your ideal number of complaints be?  We've been down this road before with a conversation with Wrecker, about "muting" players and if so many people mute a player there is obviously something wrong with them and they should be kicked automatically.  It was decided that, while that sound cool, it also could be used against everyone.  The BR's have huge numbers and they could easily send in plenty of reports of harassment, hacking etc...about any of us.  And according to the above logic, we'd need to ban you.

What we are trying to do here is have a rule base equally enforced across the board.  If you guys want us to ban people simply because you and your clan said so, then we would also need to ban people when the BR clans asked us to.  Do you see the problem.  You want special rules that only apply to the BRs.

An please remember that admins are people too, we have lives, jobs, and other commitments that don't allow us to be online all the time.  and even when we are online, we can't be everywhere.  All i get to see is whats in front of me, and what's in that chat window.  Chat window doesn't prove hacking unless it's a bonafide confession.  Chat will prove harrassment, toxicness, racist, etc..but not hacking..  I can't see a chat window of someone saying so and so built stairs on my foundation..and ban them for it. 

I guess i just don't see why it's so hard to provide proof.  If you can't be bothered to run recording software or a screenshot, how do you expect admins to be able to be online 24/7 and be at everyones base watching it for wrongdoing?

What am i missing?

First off I have no issue with BRs,  I have an issue with a handful of people who been ruining the game lately for many people. 

How many complaints? Maybe use some judgement, and look around. It is not hard to see a lot of people are getting frustrated. If a lot of people are getting frustrated maybe there is actually an issue that needs to be addressed. If people start making false accusations that is something I hope any Admin would able to figure out with time, and scrutiny (with room for human error). If not maybe they shouldn't be an admin.

The "Bring me proof" approach alone is obviously not working. Most people are not going to break the rules, glitch someones base etc. until their target is logged off. That is why I said admins need to be more proactive in catching rule breakers, instead of throwing their hands up in the air "You didn't get proof, too bad so sad!". Instead of waiting for reports to come in. Go find them. Go catch the bad guys! From my experience that is what a GM typically does. They actually look for people breaking the rules. When a report does come, investigate it. Use common sense, and critical thinking to determine at which level you need to address the complaint. Admins not doing anything at all (so it seems) is getting equally frustrating.

I honestly have no clue what type of features an admin has at their disposal. A common one I have seen in other games is letting them go invisible. If this doesn't already exist in this game, maybe that is a solution to help admins do their job better. So they can monitor suspicious people.

If we are going to only use the "bring me proof" method, sit back, and wait on the off chance we get a recording, post them and wait for Chaozz to drop the hammer. My question is: Why even bother having in-game admins?

You'd be surprised what admins can and can't do in this game.  I'll let Chaozz choose to share that or not.  But i'll tell you we have no way of gaining an unfair advantage over a normal player, if that tells you anything about our "abilities"..

So let me get this straight.  You think Admins should just roam the map all the time and basically just check bases, who we have no idea who the owner is, to see if by any chance there is someone near it, in it, or building on it, that doesn't belong, again to a base we don't know who owns..Really?

The "bring me proof" does work, when people actually bring real proof.  I banned Paquito just the the day, because i'd seen enough proof, i've never even played with the guy, but between what Kat posted, and the video that I think Flaming posted, that was good enough for me.  Last i checked, he was still banned.  So the system can work and does.  Just look through the "Report hackers here" it's full of Chaozz post stating..."Banned".  Now what they discuss behind the door that gets them unbanned, that's between them.  Chaozz is generous and seems like he sees the good in everyone.  There are lots of folks, even in this discussion, that have been banned in the past, and yet here we are, still playing and talking.  Reformed.  



we have ingame admins because Chaozz has a real life and job too, and he can't take the reports and be online all the time either.  So sharing that responsibilities without giving carte' blanche rights to everyone, is the way he has chosen to go.

If you guys can't be bothered to report an issue properly, then how do you expect us to fix it.

The whole building on others property is a real problem right now, i don't think anyone disputes that.  it's getting exploited and it sucks, again no one is disputing that.  But I can't just walk the map and ask people if that's their base their working on.

(02-22-2017, 10:51 PM)BlackPaladin Wrote: Brazilians DO read the forums. Mostly the bugs part. I have reported 2 big bugs via PM and now i see why you havent replied, i understand that. But i feel hesitant to post those bugs where they can see them and f*&# us in the next update. Is there any onther place i can PM you?

I totally agree with that.  When i discovered the day counting bug, that gave you a day everytime you logged in, no matter how many time you did.  I PM'd Chaozz cause I didn't feel that was something we'd want out in the public.  But he gets SOOOOOOOO many PMs a day, he said that's a horrible way to report bugs.  If it's an exploitable bug, PM another admin, if it's not exploitable, then post in the forums.

Admins are Pink named at the bottom of the board, if none are online, click the "Forum Team" at the bottom for a current list of admins.


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#29
(02-22-2017, 11:05 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 10:50 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 08:54 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 07:55 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote: Maybe the admins should be more proactive in finding people who abuse / exploit glitches, and hack. Instead of leaving it up to the players. "BRING ME PROOF" is being a lazy admin imo. At the very least when multiple players are complaining about someone, the admins should put in a full effort into investigating that person. This is the only game I have played where it is left up to the players to find rule breakers. This isn't the job of the players. We shouldn't have to do the admins work for them. We should be focused on playing the game, and providing feedback, and reporting the bugs / glitches. Which most of us do.  NOT focusing our time we sprend online doing what the admins should be doing.

So, what would your ideal number of complaints be?  We've been down this road before with a conversation with Wrecker, about "muting" players and if so many people mute a player there is obviously something wrong with them and they should be kicked automatically.  It was decided that, while that sound cool, it also could be used against everyone.  The BR's have huge numbers and they could easily send in plenty of reports of harassment, hacking etc...about any of us.  And according to the above logic, we'd need to ban you.

What we are trying to do here is have a rule base equally enforced across the board.  If you guys want us to ban people simply because you and your clan said so, then we would also need to ban people when the BR clans asked us to.  Do you see the problem.  You want special rules that only apply to the BRs.

An please remember that admins are people too, we have lives, jobs, and other commitments that don't allow us to be online all the time.  and even when we are online, we can't be everywhere.  All i get to see is whats in front of me, and what's in that chat window.  Chat window doesn't prove hacking unless it's a bonafide confession.  Chat will prove harrassment, toxicness, racist, etc..but not hacking..  I can't see a chat window of someone saying so and so built stairs on my foundation..and ban them for it. 

I guess i just don't see why it's so hard to provide proof.  If you can't be bothered to run recording software or a screenshot, how do you expect admins to be able to be online 24/7 and be at everyones base watching it for wrongdoing?

What am i missing?

First off I have no issue with BRs,  I have an issue with a handful of people who been ruining the game lately for many people. 

How many complaints? Maybe use some judgement, and look around. It is not hard to see a lot of people are getting frustrated. If a lot of people are getting frustrated maybe there is actually an issue that needs to be addressed. If people start making false accusations that is something I hope any Admin would able to figure out with time, and scrutiny (with room for human error). If not maybe they shouldn't be an admin.

The "Bring me proof" approach alone is obviously not working. Most people are not going to break the rules, glitch someones base etc. until their target is logged off. That is why I said admins need to be more proactive in catching rule breakers, instead of throwing their hands up in the air "You didn't get proof, too bad so sad!". Instead of waiting for reports to come in. Go find them. Go catch the bad guys! From my experience that is what a GM typically does. They actually look for people breaking the rules. When a report does come, investigate it. Use common sense, and critical thinking to determine at which level you need to address the complaint. Admins not doing anything at all (so it seems) is getting equally frustrating.

I honestly have no clue what type of features an admin has at their disposal. A common one I have seen in other games is letting them go invisible. If this doesn't already exist in this game, maybe that is a solution to help admins do their job better. So they can monitor suspicious people.

If we are going to only use the "bring me proof" method, sit back, and wait on the off chance we get a recording, post them and wait for Chaozz to drop the hammer. My question is: Why even bother having in-game admins?


So let me get this straight.  You think Admins should just roam the map all the time and basically just check bases, who we have no idea who the owner is, to see if by any chance there is someone near it, in it, or building on it, that doesn't belong, again to a base we don't know who owns..Really?

If that is what you thought I meant by being proactive. We are on completely different wave lengths. Come on man a little common sense.
#30
(02-23-2017, 12:49 AM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 11:05 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 10:50 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 08:54 PM)kczak Wrote:
(02-22-2017, 07:55 PM)kRaZyKiLLa Wrote: Maybe the admins should be more proactive in finding people who abuse / exploit glitches, and hack. Instead of leaving it up to the players. "BRING ME PROOF" is being a lazy admin imo. At the very least when multiple players are complaining about someone, the admins should put in a full effort into investigating that person. This is the only game I have played where it is left up to the players to find rule breakers. This isn't the job of the players. We shouldn't have to do the admins work for them. We should be focused on playing the game, and providing feedback, and reporting the bugs / glitches. Which most of us do.  NOT focusing our time we sprend online doing what the admins should be doing.

So, what would your ideal number of complaints be?  We've been down this road before with a conversation with Wrecker, about "muting" players and if so many people mute a player there is obviously something wrong with them and they should be kicked automatically.  It was decided that, while that sound cool, it also could be used against everyone.  The BR's have huge numbers and they could easily send in plenty of reports of harassment, hacking etc...about any of us.  And according to the above logic, we'd need to ban you.

What we are trying to do here is have a rule base equally enforced across the board.  If you guys want us to ban people simply because you and your clan said so, then we would also need to ban people when the BR clans asked us to.  Do you see the problem.  You want special rules that only apply to the BRs.

An please remember that admins are people too, we have lives, jobs, and other commitments that don't allow us to be online all the time.  and even when we are online, we can't be everywhere.  All i get to see is whats in front of me, and what's in that chat window.  Chat window doesn't prove hacking unless it's a bonafide confession.  Chat will prove harrassment, toxicness, racist, etc..but not hacking..  I can't see a chat window of someone saying so and so built stairs on my foundation..and ban them for it. 

I guess i just don't see why it's so hard to provide proof.  If you can't be bothered to run recording software or a screenshot, how do you expect admins to be able to be online 24/7 and be at everyones base watching it for wrongdoing?

What am i missing?

First off I have no issue with BRs,  I have an issue with a handful of people who been ruining the game lately for many people. 

How many complaints? Maybe use some judgement, and look around. It is not hard to see a lot of people are getting frustrated. If a lot of people are getting frustrated maybe there is actually an issue that needs to be addressed. If people start making false accusations that is something I hope any Admin would able to figure out with time, and scrutiny (with room for human error). If not maybe they shouldn't be an admin.

The "Bring me proof" approach alone is obviously not working. Most people are not going to break the rules, glitch someones base etc. until their target is logged off. That is why I said admins need to be more proactive in catching rule breakers, instead of throwing their hands up in the air "You didn't get proof, too bad so sad!". Instead of waiting for reports to come in. Go find them. Go catch the bad guys! From my experience that is what a GM typically does. They actually look for people breaking the rules. When a report does come, investigate it. Use common sense, and critical thinking to determine at which level you need to address the complaint. Admins not doing anything at all (so it seems) is getting equally frustrating.

I honestly have no clue what type of features an admin has at their disposal. A common one I have seen in other games is letting them go invisible. If this doesn't already exist in this game, maybe that is a solution to help admins do their job better. So they can monitor suspicious people.

If we are going to only use the "bring me proof" method, sit back, and wait on the off chance we get a recording, post them and wait for Chaozz to drop the hammer. My question is: Why even bother having in-game admins?


So let me get this straight.  You think Admins should just roam the map all the time and basically just check bases, who we have no idea who the owner is, to see if by any chance there is someone near it, in it, or building on it, that doesn't belong, again to a base we don't know who owns..Really?

If that is what you thought I meant by being proactive. We are on completely different wave lengths. Come on man a little common sense.

Go find them. Go catch the bad guys! From my experience that is what a GM typically does. They actually look for people breaking the rules

I see where the confusion could be...YOU said "go find them, go catch them"....so if i don't run across them durning my normal game play, and we don't have an "all seeing eye" one can only assume you meant for admins to, I don't know "go find them", which a typical person would assume you meant exactly that.

Being proactive means, that as we (admins) have time, and resources, we can and will investigate reports of abuse, hacking etc..however, when said reports aren't substantiated, we have no recourse except to let them go, OR fail to act, as it's been put.  If we can't get the evidence, cause we've established an admin can't follow everyone around, then we NEED you guys to substantiate the report for us.  

I still don't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.  It's like I'm speaking English in a portuguese world or something.  When was the last time a cop showed up on your door and asked you if you were doing anything wrong?  I mean your in your yard digging a hole or something and some cop just walks up to you and asks what you're doing.  I'll venture a guess not many times if any.  Or a cop just hang outside on your sidewalk watching you dig the hole, waiting for you to say a bad word or something.  Again, i doubt it's ever happened. 

But lets say you call the cops cause someone stole your bike out of the back yard.  What happens?  They show up, take a report and ask you for what?  Evidence, right?  What'd he look like, what color was the bike, how old was the bike, what was he wearing, etc...agreed?

Now do they go immediately and arrest the guy you describe?  Probably not.  They see a guy with a bike matching your description, do they arrest that guy?  Probably not, they'll ask him, hey where'd you get that bike?  Is it yours?  Can i check the serial number?  Sure they'll ask those.  BUT, what if you didn't give the cops the serial number to your bike, because you thought they should just take your word for it.  it's  red bike and that guy too it.  Will they arrest him? Probably not, not if you can't prove he has your bike.  BUT, you gave the cops a copy of the receipt from when you bought the bike, with serial number.  NOW, it all changes for the thief.  The cops have him, proof, he did it.  He can tell it to the judge on how he came into possession of stolen property.  If the judge lets him go because he felt bad for him, or because he said he didn't know, whatever...is that the  cop's fault?  NO!!

That's what i'm trying to say.  Everyone is frustrated, believe me EVERYONE is frustrated with all this.  But we all have to work together to fight this problem, admins can't fix this if you guys don't properly report it, just like Chaozz can't fix a bug if he doesn't know about it.  He needs details to fix a bug, when, how, what OS, what were you doing, etc...We don't have a problem giving him those details to fix the game, but it seems that admins are expected to accept a screenshot of chat window with 2 guys names in it as proof that these were the two that hacked me yesterday.

I have ZERO problems kicking or banning someone from the game.  It takes literally like 4 keystrokes and their name.  Then they can tell it to the judge (Chaozz).  But I, and I suspect other admins, WON'T ban a player simply because another player or 3 other players say I should.  

Daro, i think this thread is done.  Please feel free to lock it if you agree...


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